Anthony Lamacchia is not directly involved in the fight between Zillow, Compass and MLSs. But as the dispute moves from MRED in Chicago to Realtracs in the Southeast, the Massachusetts broker-owner says he is watching the trend closely.
As the leader of a large regional brokerage operating across eight MLSs, Lamacchia is the kind of broker-owner who could be directly affected if the fight over private listings and portal distribution spreads beyond the industry’s biggest players. And if any MLS in his markets cuts off Zillow’s feed because of Compass or the broader listing fight, Lamacchia told Inman he would sue.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Inman: Last week, MRED cut off Zillow’s feed, and now Realtracs has threatened to do the same. What happens now? Do you think there will be others?
Anthony Lamacchia: I’m surprised to hear that an MLS would just do that on its own. That tells me there’s some kind of friction between that particular MLS and Zillow that perhaps is unrelated to the bigger picture — or perhaps is. I don’t know the details on that.
With MRED, it was clear to me that Compass was pulling the strings. It was three weeks after they made a deal with them. So I don’t know why it would be happening with Realtracs. But the reason this stuff is even in the conversation is because of Robert Reffkin and his efforts to try to hoard more business into his companies.
I respect Robert. I respect his companies. We do a ton of business with his companies. So he’s a very worthy competitor that I respect, but I don’t agree with him on this particular topic. I don’t think it’s best for buyers and sellers. In fact, I don’t just think it — I know it’s not best for buyers and sellers.
If properties are not getting maximum exposure the vast, vast majority of the time, then sellers aren’t getting maximum exposure, and all buyers are not getting access. That’s a problem. That isn’t good for consumers.
It seems like more brokerages, or at least brokerage leaders, are warming up to pre-marketing. What’s your take on that?
Lamacchia: They’re not necessarily warming up to it. They’re doing it because they’re feeling like they’re going to have to, and they don’t want Compass to sound like they have some kind of competitive advantage that they don’t have, because that could potentially hurt a brokerage with recruiting or with buyers and sellers.
There’s always been — and our agents do it, too — situations where a seller says, “I’m not listing for a month. If you want to market it to people you know, fine. But I don’t want to go on the market until July.” That’s been going on since the beginning of time in real estate.
What Robert [Reffkin] is describing is much different. He wants the ability to list when they want to, not ever list on the open market, and only market properties on Compass.com. We’re not trying to do that. We want the properties to get maximum exposure. There are areas where he has so much market share that I can understand why he’s trying to do that, but again, I know it’s not good for buyers and sellers.
If Compass hoards all the listings in the Compass companies in the areas where I do business, then we and other brokerages will be forced to do the same thing in return. We’re not going to share ours if they’re not sharing theirs. And companies like mine that are big enough, we have power to cause them a headache.
What would you do if an MLS you’re a part of cut off Zillow’s feed because of pressure from Compass or the broader Zillow-Compass fight?
Lamacchia: If Compass somehow convinces any of the MLSs that we are a part of to shut off the Zillow feed, I will sue that MLS and Compass, no question. I’m not going to stand for our listings not getting maximum exposure, and I’m certainly not going to stand for a competitor having an impact on where our listings are shown.
I think there are others that would have done that in the MRED situation, but it only lasted about 30 hours, so by the time most people knew what was going on, it was over. But if that happens in any markets we operate in where a competitor is influencing the MLS — whether it’s force or some kind of influence — to stop the listing feed to Zillow, I will be suing Compass and that MLS within days.
Is your position because you’re siding with Zillow, or is it about something else?
Lamacchia: The sellers would be harmed. That would be my biggest concern. Secondarily to that, I would also be concerned about business that we receive from Zillow. Secondarily.
I am not always on the side of Zillow. I have butted heads with them off and on for years. We’re currently a customer of theirs. From 2018 to 2022, I didn’t even do business with Zillow. We’ve been offered to be on Zillow Flex over the years. We’ve said no.
So I understand Robert’s points and some of his concerns with the power that Zillow has. It concerns me as well. However, I don’t agree that those things should be hoarded to a brokerage in any mass fashion. I understand there are one-off sellers here or there. But what he’s talking about is something that will dismantle the system.
You’ve previously said this could be the next big antitrust fight in the industry. Can you elaborate?
Lamacchia: If the system does get dismantled and brokerages start to hoard properties, we are inevitably going to end up in antitrust lawsuits because we’re not providing access. In addition to that, I see fair housing lawsuits coming.
Who are we? Who are we as broker-owners to dictate who gets to see our properties for sale and who doesn’t? We should not be doing such a thing.
What about the idea of exclusivity, especially in markets like Chicago, where inventory is tight and there’s an argument that scarcity or exclusivity can equal more value?
Lamacchia: When inventory is very low, it is much easier for a seller and a listing broker to get away without maximum exposure. Now, we are in a situation where inventory of homes for sale is going up. As inventory goes up, sellers want maximum exposure. More so do listing agents.
By the time we get to this fall, there will be a plethora of listings across the country that aren’t selling nearly as fast as they were. It happened last fall, too. It’s going to happen again this fall. We’re right on track. We have more inventory now than we did a year ago. So as inventory goes up, it will be much more difficult, much less tempting for brokerages, brokers and home sellers to keep a listing in any exclusive fashion.
But I want to be clear. I understand there are one-off cases here or there. I was the No. 1 Realtor in Massachusetts at 29 years old in 2010, with most homes sold. I sold some homes for police chiefs, county sheriffs, news anchors. We’ve had some sports athletes. So I understand there are some unique cases where they’re a little more concerned.
But guess what happened with every one of those people? They went on the open market. There might have been a little more delicacy about the way we did things, or a delay because of preparation. I get it. But the masses should be listing on the open market when they are ready to do so.
Again, I respect Robert and I understand his points of view, but I don’t agree with him on this particular issue. I think he has over-pushed the issue.
And let me say something else. What Robert is saying and what Compass agents are actually doing in the street are two different things. The vast, vast majority of Compass agents that I’ve seen — and certainly all the Anywhere brands — they’re not hoarding properties. Robert’s talking about it more than it’s actually happening, and maybe that’s part of his plan.
And your position stands for any of the MLSs you’re a member of?
Lamacchia: No question. If they shut off the Zillow feed because there’s a Zillow dispute, or Zillow pulls something outrageous, fine. But if the feed is pulled clearly because of a pissing contest between Compass and Zillow, and what Robert’s trying to do, I will sue Compass and that MLS within a matter of a couple of weeks, guaranteed.
I would not stand for that. A competitor is not going to get in the way of where my listings are marketed — not going to happen.
You mentioned that companies big enough can cause headaches if this becomes a listing war. What happens to smaller brokerages?
Lamacchia: The small brokerages are going to have a real problem. If a listing war breaks out, they’re going to have a real problem. You’re going to see all the small brokerages disappear and join all the big brokerages, and we’re going to turn into the airlines. That’s exactly what James Dwiggins has said.
I don’t think that’ll happen. I think Robert is making noise to gain leverage and to make his point. But I would bet he’s not going to go so far as to create a legitimate listing war across America. I know he’s a smart guy. He’s a smart businessman. I don’t think he’s going to do that.
